Brian in Morecambe

[brian]

Nowhere near the classic Trev In Cyprus thread but a much smaller project at home, a new kitchen diner. All the photos are in a flickr set, link at the end of this post.

A wall has to come down and we're still trying to decide if an RSJ has to go up in it's place, the bathroom wall isn't directly above the kitchen wall so first thought is no RSJ but they're so close to each other, it's debatable. So debatable we've got a Structural Engineer making the decision tomorrow.

I've never had the dining room floor up but preparing for the builder tomorrow, thought I'd check it really was a concrete base as I thought. Under the wooden floor are what look like very old linoleum tiles sat on concrete. The house was built in 1946 when wood was scarce so even skirting boards are concrete.



The aim is to go from this



to this



www.flickr.com/photos/baysnapper/sets/72157624887578223/

[trevnhil]

Hi Brian. It certainly looks like a good project and of course removing the wall makes it far from simple. To be honest I thought the existing kitchen looked fine. But of course you are wanting to open it up and make it into a Kitchen / diner. The computer pictures of the finished job look good.
I hope that you or the builder don't hit too many snags.

Good luck. Trev..

[brian]

The existing kitchen swung the decision to buy the house 6 years ago especially the beech worktops. What I didn't appreciate was having to sand the beech down every year and seal it with a special sort of varnish. Not that there's much surface which becomes obvious when you've got more than 2 pans in use or finding space to put out more than 2 plates. There's another glass panel above the french doors which, with the wall down, will really brighten the whole area.

Most, if not all the stuff, has new homes and that includes cupboard doors and carcasses. Likely to be scrapped are the sink and oven, but that's got a random number generator better known as a temperature control.

Builder, Structural Engineer and Project Manager all due to visit tomorrow by the end of which I'll have a final cost, apart from flooring for with karndean has been recommended.

[brian]

The kitchen wall doesn't support the bedroom wall which is about 6 inches to one side (vertically). However, the bedroom wall is just sat on the floorboards, the nearest joist is that above the kitchen wall 6 inches away. The solution is very likely to be a beam in the ceiling underneath the floorboards, directly below the bedroom wall to give it some support. What it means to the finished kitchen is an uninterrupted ceiling and flat wall behind the hob :-)

[trevnhil]

Hi Brian. I certainly understand all that you are saying about the bedroom wall just being on the upstairs floorboards.

It is a good idea to put a beam under those floorboards to give support to the upstairs wall.

BUT.... are there likely to be any wires or pipes in the way, and how are they going to get the beam into position. Will they need to make a hole in the outside wall of your house.?

Trev..

[accykeef]

Brian, Trev has out done all of us with his project.
Taking walls down can be a risky business and many a DIY'er has come to grief doing it. The downstairs wall may not be directly under the upstairs wall but will still be supporting it. Take away the downstairs wall and the joists will soon start to sag. The outside wall will take the weight of a support beam but what is the opposite wall made of? The will be wires in the wall feeding the cooker hood (easily sorted) and the gas feed for the hob will be down there somewhere. I hope the pipe has not been concreted in.

[brian]

Fortunately that's none of my worry. The builder works for the kitchen company and he brought a structural engineer with him who made the decisions and will be writing it up for building control to read. I have gone to a company who will come in and do everything. I could have project managed it myself, got my own builder, bought the units from somewhere like MFI, had the granite cut to order, etc. but I'm not around much so it would take ages to bring together. Their PM has just been around and a month before work starts, we've already got down to the detail of the light bulbs.

Just need to find a decent aerial fitter now to run an aerial cable to a socket for the wall-mounted TV when it's all done.

[WillowTheWhisp]

The finished plan looks lovely. I hope it doesn't go giving Coachman any ideas though. He's been hankering to knock down the wall betgween our kitchen and dining room ever since he moved in here but I don't want him to because I'm fairly sure that if he did the house would fall down.

I was watching a program last night where a couple thought removing a stud wall would be no problem but the presenters illustrated how even putting a door in it would cause the roof to collapse because the wall, although only wood and plasterboard was supporting everything above it by having two diagognal wooden strips in a sort of A-frame shape. Cutting through those at any point would just be catastrophic.

[brian]

Yes, even though the wall we are removing is not supporting the wall nearly above it, it will still bear some of the load however minimal that is. Without adding support to the upper wall, the slightest movement taking out the kitchen wall could produce cracks or even trigger the floorboards to sink. Better safe than sorry.

[brian]

K-Day looms on Monday. Kitchen emptied, surprising how so few cupboards produced so much stuff to box or bin. Last of the furniture being taken this afternoon, assuming we can move the bl**dy skip to get past it.