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Post by brian on Jul 9, 2010 17:35:28 GMT
Some excellent thoughts there. Brian, thanks for that. I wish I shared your optimism. My flip-side is that if the plans are approved, there are too many risks. Urban Splash, asset-rich but cash poor, may be tempted to sell their prize on and the overall project will stall. Or their contractors bring in their teams from elsewhere, not benefitting the local work-force. And other developers see that Morecambe is now over-developed and that US could only afford it from all the grants they got. Or that as Phase 1 nears completion and local entrepreneurs previously taking on properties like Chill, Shiraz, Palatine hold back only to get gazumped by regional/national chains so the current Prom and Euston Rd areas have the life sucked out of them. And it's going to take at least 8 years ... I regret my gloom and cynicism are deep.Some risks but, unlike Blobby, not the town's. I have to ask are you happy with only having the places you mention? Would you not like even more choice? As for Euston Road, it had the life sucked out of it long ago. I'm afraid I don't see that prom area as having the life sucked out of it, I only see it booming. I just wish they'd decide one way or the other what they do with the Winter Gardens. Anyway(!), we could discuss our pros and cons all week and only agree to differ, but my real suspicion is that Lancaster CC see this as a sure-fire solution to their 'What shall we do with Morecambe?' perennial problem. Give Urban Splash the site, stuff it full of bedsits - sorry there I go again - studios, take the Council Tax and half the sale proceeds and no Council run attractions to finance. A win/win/win situation. No we didn't consult with the residents early on so we've got ourselves in a corner with secret promises and heavily doctored FoI responses, and yes it's in a conservation area, but hey we defined that so we can change the rules when it suits us, and yes there are less controversial sites for this sort of development within metres, but they aren't ours to give away .... I can't comment on any secret deals or FoI hacks but I would have thought after Blobbygate, we wouldn't be in that situation again. If any of it can be proved then I hope those involved get what they deserve. You say that Morecambe is no longer a tourist town, but it was an invention of the tourism industry. If it doesn't continue to attract visitors you're right it will degenerate, the Sunday Open-air Market has recently been leading the way there! There isn't a jobs base outside of tourism and supporting retired people. However, there is a surprising number of leisure activities still happening here to which Lancaster, with its deep understanding of Morecambe's needs, has responded by axeing Tourism Centre staff and closing the Dome. I still haven't got a grip on all the websites, forums and blogs run by people promoting special interest events in the town. Proactive tourism marketing is desperately needed and not just on the internet - the lazy man's soap box (yup, just like me now!). Park Life at the Platform earlier this year - excellent young bands - not even a billboard outside to tell casual visitors it was going on. Proms on the Prom with fireworks last year. Some of my family from down south were visiting - loved it. This year? Just because the town was an invention of the tourism industry, does that mean it will always be a tourist town? Sinclair invented the C5 but we drive Toyota & VW hybrids now. Things change, adapt or they die. We also have to remember that the area under discussion was a ship breaker's yard originally. I have always criticised the town for lack of publicity. The Citizen was an excellent paper, free through your door. If you want to know what's happening now it's 70p/week and, to be honest, a waste of 70p. This week's headline? Christie The Cat's costume has been returned, not that the club even knew it was missing. I've got a "For Your Entertainment" poster from June 11th 1961. Here's just the venues, Odeon, Empire, West End Pier, Waxworks, Floral Hall, Pleasure Park Theatre, Palace, Arcadian, Zoo, Alhambra, Plaza, Heysham Head, Palladium, Central Pier and Winter Gardens. How many of these tourist venues do we have left and open? Nil. We had a fairground, we have a waste land. We had the Empire Arcade, we have Aldi. We had the WG Fairground, we have a car park. We had a Super Swimming Stadium, we then had Bubbles, now we have a slab of concrete because even the travelling fair seems to have gone elsewhere. We had Marineland, we have a lifeboat station. The point being we have lost so much, long before Urban Splash came along and don't forget what they did. Turned a derelict joke into a formidable hotel. I just wish other investors saw the future US do. P.S. If you want any entertainment information, the number for the Information Bureau is Morecambe 720  |
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mpprh
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Post by mpprh on Jul 9, 2010 20:19:58 GMT
I've got a "For Your Entertainment" poster from June 11th 1961. Here's just the venues, Odeon, Empire, West End Pier, Waxworks, Floral Hall, Pleasure Park Theatre, Palace, Arcadian, Zoo, Alhambra, Plaza, Heysham Head, Palladium, Central Pier and Winter Gardens. How many of these tourist venues do we have left and open? Nil. We had a fairground, we have a waste land. We had the Empire Arcade, we have Aldi. We had the WG Fairground, we have a car park. We had a Super Swimming Stadium, we then had Bubbles, now we have a slab of concrete because even the travelling fair seems to have gone elsewhere. We had Marineland, we have a lifeboat station. I hope I'm not treading on toes. I lived around the Morecambe area from 1959 to 1973 - probably the declining years ? I've been a frequent visitor over the following years (although not recently) and still have family in the area. I think those who have Morecambe close to their heart have to ask themselves some fundamental questions : * Do people avoid Morecambe because there are not enough attractions ? * Do the attractions fail because there are not enough visitors ? * Is the total UK tourist market big enough to support Morecambe as a holiday town any longer ? * As Ryanair etc increasingly expand into smaller airports, where will the future Morecambe visitors come from ? The reason I'm asking these questions is that I don't buy into the idea that if Morecambe had another Winter Gardens, better hotels, 7 cinemas, 2 piers, 5 theatres, Super Swimming Stadium, Harbour Band stand, etc etc people would begin to visit the town again. An interesting observation : I used to fly from home to Morecambe using the Ryanair Girona - Blackpool route. It made sense to me because Girona was under 2 hrs from home and even in winter was an easy and beautiful drive over the Pyrenees giving me just a 30 minute hop to Morecambe at the other end (better than a local flight + Friday night traffic in the rain from Stansted ?). Looking at this flight was interesting. Ryanair consistently filled the Friday night Blackpool - Girona flight, but the return journey (with me aboard !) was almost empty. So what has NW UK got to offer for people who live within reach of Costa Brava (and with the new mobility - that is how we should think). I talked to the passengers. They were going to Spain for nightlife and shopping (Barcelona), Skiing (Pyrenees and Andorra), Beaches ( Costa Brava), Football matches (Barcelona), cheap booze for stag nights and, of course,sun . What has Morecambe got ? Ryanair spent a lot of money, but failed to market Blackpool and the NW coast of UK to the Spanish. They still have flights from Liverpool and now they are marketing Leeds / Bradford as the new destination. Perhaps the future of Morecambe is a retirement home ? Peter |
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Post by WillowTheWhisp on Jul 9, 2010 22:56:17 GMT
* Do people avoid Morecambe because there are not enough attractions ? * Do the attractions fail because there are not enough visitors ? I think it's a bit of a vicious circle. A lot of Morecambe attractions seemed to disappear round about the same time, Alhambra, piers, Moby Dick - fewer visitors came so other things went and even fewer visitors came. Many towns seem to be looking to attract visitors, not just the traditional holiday resorts and Morecambe does have a lot more natural assetts than many towns so it's not too wild of a dream to hope to attract more visitors. If there were more to keep people in Morecambe, more to do, then I think more people would stay for longer rather than just passing through and paying a fleeting visit to Eric's statue. |
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jasond
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Post by jasond on Jul 10, 2010 10:35:06 GMT
So we're all agreed that Morecambe is no longer a viable tourist destination? So why take the open central Prom away from us (the dog and me specifically!) and replace it with more bedsits than I can shake a stick at and duplicate facilities? The presumably optimistic and initially enthusiastic owners of establishments on the prom that haven't survived their first winter should act as a warning. Where will the 300+bedsit occupants work? Where's the cheapest place to buy plywood for boarding up the buildings?
Brian, I'm being thick here what's Morecambe 720? read the thread on the Town Clerk 'situation' just now. Glad I'm not the only suffering from that rare 21st century condition - Information Underload!
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Post by hairydog on Jul 10, 2010 12:44:21 GMT
Hi Guys, I'm not sure if you have all seen the plans but this website has it all. www.flacq.com/work/residential/central_promenade/1/Personally i don't like it. It takes up far too much public land and if it breeds morecambe will end up like parts of cornwall where for 6 months of the year it will be a ghost town with all the property owned by rich people wanting a second (Holiday) home while the locals are priced out of the town. Appart from that if it flops (like most things do in this town) we will be left with a huge eyesore. |
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Post by brian on Jul 10, 2010 14:23:20 GMT
So we're all agreed that Morecambe is no longer a viable tourist destination? So why take the open central Prom away from us (the dog and me specifically!) and replace it with more bedsits than I can shake a stick at and duplicate facilities? The presumably optimistic and initially enthusiastic owners of establishments on the prom that haven't survived their first winter should act as a warning. Where will the 300+bedsit occupants work? Where's the cheapest place to buy plywood for boarding up the buildings? Brian, I'm being thick here what's Morecambe 720? read the thread on the Town Clerk 'situation' just now. Glad I'm not the only suffering from that rare 21st century condition - Information Underload! 720 was the number for tourist information in 1961. If we had a decent road to Lancaster, they'd work there. With the Uni expanding, the students are attracting businesses and there's a lot of local graduate recruitment. Grads who need somewhere decent to live. I remember the days when a good night out was a coach to Blackburn. Now the coaches are coming to Lancaster. So Jason, what would you like to see done to or happen in the town? |
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Post by WillowTheWhisp on Jul 11, 2010 14:01:10 GMT
Hi Guys, I'm not sure if you have all seen the plans but this website has it all. www.flacq.com/work/residential/central_promenade/1/Personally i don't like it. It takes up far too much public land and if it breeds morecambe will end up like parts of cornwall where for 6 months of the year it will be a ghost town with all the property owned by rich people wanting a second (Holiday) home while the locals are priced out of the town. Appart from that if it flops (like most things do in this town) we will be left with a huge eyesore. I'm curious about what is classified as public land. Surely if someone owns it it cannot be classified as public land, or was/is it council owned? I can see your point about the danger of holiday homes owned by people who spend most of the year elsewhere. I don't really like the buidings either but I do like the street furniture. So we're all agreed that Morecambe is no longer a viable tourist destination? So why take the open central Prom away from us (the dog and me specifically!) and replace it with more bedsits than I can shake a stick at and duplicate facilities? The presumably optimistic and initially enthusiastic owners of establishments on the prom that haven't survived their first winter should act as a warning. Where will the 300+bedsit occupants work? Where's the cheapest place to buy plywood for boarding up the buildings? You and the dog will still have open prom to walk along on the seaward side of the proposed development just as you can currently walk along the seaward side of the derelict area which is currently there. I don't think it will actually take up any larger area than has prevously been used for various assorted things (a brilliant open air olympic size swimming pool for one) but I could be wrong and am willng to stand corrected on that. I wonder if perhaps bringing possible new residents into the town could be beneficial to those establishments on the prom. Are you referring to business premises? It may well bring them more customers. Anything which brings people into the town is surely going to benefit the businesses of the town by bringing in more revenue. |
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trevnhil
Part of the Furniture
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Post by trevnhil on Jul 11, 2010 16:00:04 GMT
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Post by brian on Jul 11, 2010 16:46:00 GMT
Looking at those plans, they must be a few years old. They appear to show two buildings approximately where the hoverstation has been built.
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Post by WillowTheWhisp on Jul 11, 2010 20:32:21 GMT
The buildings in that second link do look a bit less oppressive and I quite like the one that's a bit like an aardvark. I wonder what happened to that idea?
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jasond
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Post by jasond on Jul 12, 2010 10:15:21 GMT
What would I like to see done....
- One option is nothing. Leave the Central Prom area as it is now, reopen the Dome, encourage the travelling fair, etc.
- Promotion of Morecambe events to a wider public in a more organised way. Not just on the internet, not just in Morecambe. Trouble is, a lot of ideas about promoting a place sound pretty cheesy because they're not new and whizzy and many people with the time (including weekdays) and money, don't use the internet much. For example, ads in local papers within one hours drive of the Prom. Ads in towns inland within an hours train/bus ride, the train and bus 'stations' are close to the Prom. Combination fares and vouchers for attractions. Yes I know it's hard to think of what to put in such a deal, but .... It would need a proactive person (MTC, Lanc CC - yes I know...) - enthusiastic.
- M6 link road. I'm not passionate about this so I'll defer to those who are, but it would help visitors (not Lancaster commuters of course) and Morecambe businesses.
- Get something happening at the Winter Gardens, maybe restore a small piece - a box - as a fund-raising focus. If the Dome is gone, put on events there, start earning money, everything's easier with a pot of money. Be a bit hokey at first, but one of the schoolchildren in the survey I'm analysing asked for Paramore. I'd stump up for them! Is it me or are the FotWG happy to sit back and just wait for grants?
- How about the development without the residential floors? I think everyone would agree that would never happen these days; which says a lot about what the plan is really for (cash cow for lanc cc).
Yes I know I can still use what I call the Prom past the railings to the lifeboat station. But as Mr Gloomy, I will have to draw your attention to the music coming from up to 300 open windows and beach apartments, and the ad-hoc washing lines on the balconies, and the bedsit occupants cars roaring out of the underground car parks in front of me at 40mph.
Apologies, a couple of assertions from newspaper columns in the last few days (I'm in deepest Kent/Sussex this week with time on my hands, no dog, high hedges, no air): first was a lady columnist pointing out her husband when faced with a problem either chooses "It'll be all right" or raging bull elephant on the rampage with nothing in between, and the second which reminded us males that 'blokes are easily diverted'.
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jasond
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Post by jasond on Jul 12, 2010 10:29:25 GMT
It's useful having a discussion without recriminations, but it would be better if Lanc CC would announce an end date for comments on 07/01810/OUT. Or is this part of their plan - to let things drift on into next year and beyond when all us opponents have died from paranoia, high blood pressure or just old age?
The planning website is so impenetrable for the only vaguely interested, the database is unsuitable for the sheer number of Assoiated Documents and makes no distinction betweend documents worth reading and "Me too!". Hopefully the numbers count and getting more than, say, 10 objections is unheard of these days. That's why Lanc CC and US are playing the softly, softly game and not getting involved in any live meetings.
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trevnhil
Part of the Furniture
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Post by trevnhil on Jul 12, 2010 13:21:53 GMT
Well I was doing pretty fair on reading your 1-15pm post, until we got to .....
"Yes I know I can still use what I call the Prom past the railings to the lifeboat station. But as Mr Gloomy, I will have to draw your attention to the music coming from up to 300 open windows and beach apartments, and the ad-hoc washing lines on the balconies, and the bedsit occupants cars roaring out of the underground car parks in front of me at 40mph."
You just went and ruined the credibility then. You are just being silly.
Trev..
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Post by WillowTheWhisp on Jul 12, 2010 15:03:36 GMT
Leave the Central Prom area as it is now? Well, admittedly I haven't seen it for a month or three but last time I saw that area it was a disgrace and I certainly wouldn't recommend just leaving it. Even where the Dome is/was is just a mixed up left over from previous things and that tatty old "Jugs of Tea" hut was one of the things that people focussed in on in order to take the rise out of Morecambe. I think the area does need something doing with it. Hopefully that will be the catalyst and we'll see something happenig to the old Frontierland site and the pityful Polo tower.
Music coming from up to 300 open windows? I'd have thought residental property would present less of a noise polution problem than the fairground rides blaring out umpty millon decibells as they have in the past. I recall one summer not long ago sitting on a bench reading a book to the deafening accompanyment of Elton John repeatedly questioning if we were "ready, ready for love" whilst the kids were enjoying the fairground rides, until I became heartily sick of Elton John and had to move elsewere.
I can't imagine cars roaring out of garages or car parks at 40mph. They don't currently roar out of the present car parks at that speed. There would surely be a limit and bit of common sense. They would after all have to pull out onto a main road merely yards ahead.
Bedsits? Do they feature in any of the plans? I though they were aiming for residential or a hotel? I'm not too keen on the hotel idea as that would detract from the Midland, but then again perhaps it would appeal to a different market as the Midland is a bit dear.
I'm sorry to see the Dome closed and would have liked it to have featured in part of whatever becomes of that area. I'd also like to see gardens and seating.
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Post by WillowTheWhisp on Jul 12, 2010 16:41:10 GMT
Just a bit of a comparison of what is there now and what is proposed. It really doesn't look like much that is going is worth keeping.  I'm just not convinced that what is proposed is the best possible alternative, but I don't think doing nothing is a viable option either. |
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